Sounds of Resistance: Art and Displacement in Sudan

00:00:01: Art and culture in times of war and displacement.

00:00:05: For decades Sudan has been blacked by political instability, And recent years it's faced a massive humanitarian crisis.

00:00:14: The War has displaced millions people and many cultural workers have been forced to flee To Egypt the Gulf States or Europe among other places.

00:00:24: Yet new networks are emerging in diaspora.

00:00:27: Musicians are organising concerts founding collectives and keeping cultural traditions alive.

00:00:34: Particularly noticeable is the rise of Sudanese hip-hop, artists' planned political rep with regional sounds... ...and speak openly about violence hope & social change.

00:00:47: Music thus becomes documentation protest remembrance.

00:00:51: It represents a generation of Sudanes artist

00:00:55: who

00:00:55: despite war displacement and uncertainty continue to work, continue to compose and find new ways of telling stories.

00:01:18: Welcome to the VIDC Podcast Blickwechsel!

00:01:21: My name is Sibylle Straubinger and I am director at Vienna Institute for International Dialogue & Cooperation And today's conversation focuses on music-exile cultural memory and power of artistic collaboration with the Sudanese singer songwriter and performer Hiba Eljizuli.

00:01:41: Heber is an artist-in-residence at Kulturn in Bewegung, the cultural initiative of the VIDC.

00:01:47: And during his stay in Austria she's working on new music collaborating with local artists and presenting her debut album Moja Van Aar – Water & Fire.

00:01:59: In this episode we discuss Heber artistic practice The role of Music in Sudan, exile under diaspora... ...and what an artist residency in Austria can achieve.

00:02:09: It's great to have you here, Hiva.

00:02:11: Thanks

00:02:11: for coming!

00:02:12: Thank You, Sivilih.

00:02:14: Hiva, you recently arrived a few days ago in Vienna and will be living it working until mid-July?

00:02:21: Yes

00:02:22: actually beginning of August.

00:02:25: How was your arrival so far?

00:02:27: It was beautiful.

00:02:29: I'm enjoying myself So far.

00:02:30: i am feeling comfortable In my little apartment And went one park.

00:02:37: I went to Karls

00:02:39: Karl Splatz?

00:02:40: Yes.

00:02:41: Karl Splats, it's beautiful.

00:02:43: I went there and laid down looking at the sky enjoying nature.

00:02:47: so far The city is beautiful.

00:02:51: It's colourful.

00:02:53: Transportation is easy.

00:02:55: Great!

00:02:56: You brought summer with you That great.

00:03:00: The residency program promotes international artistic collaboration and intercultural dialogue.

00:03:07: And the goal is to connect artists from the global south with a local scene, and facilitate new projects.

00:03:13: so what interests you personally about such collaborations?

00:03:18: What does it mean for your work in New City?

00:03:22: Yeah I think that's going be great learning experience you know, connecting with artists from different places in the world.

00:03:32: that alone is huge.

00:03:35: You get to understand somebody else's work style what they're into and have been influenced by.

00:03:42: I'm excited too.

00:03:43: learn also about music here.

00:03:45: how are there like different rhythms some old stuff?

00:03:51: so yeah i am excited for learning And being a new city...I mean..a new country.

00:03:58: Yeah, as I said...I'm soaking in all the visuals that i am seeing and having three months to be a full-time artist.

00:04:14: That sounds like a dream!

00:04:17: And it came into perfect time for me To just bring back all of my ideas For the past, I don't know.

00:04:28: Let's say four years and to kind of do a real step towards that.

00:04:34: And yeah it's this is great opportunity.

00:04:38: Yeah, we're also very happy to have you here Thank You.

00:04:41: already collaborated with an Austrian singer-songwriter last year in Cairo with Oscar Yes at the cultural forum in Cairoc.

00:04:50: how did they come about?

00:04:52: Yes, I was contacted by Caroline from the Austrian Cultural Center in Cairo and they told me about this opportunity.

00:05:02: I'm so excited!

00:05:19: was for us to perform at the opera house.

00:05:23: So this is also so great!

00:05:26: Our collaboration, what it?

00:05:29: We had a really short time we have two or three days I think...to come up with something and..we worked together.

00:05:37: i was amazed by her vocal abilities such as we thought but musically the way that she sings.

00:05:47: What is it?

00:05:48: Edited.

00:05:49: Although her voice comes out as if its edited, so crazy.

00:05:54: but she's also a hard-working person.

00:05:56: that was nice to be around and we tried to merge our worlds in such a few times.

00:06:05: We are different type of artists.

00:06:08: Our music is different But we met somewhere.

00:06:11: Yes, you did.

00:06:13: I listened to it as a sort of video online and that was very nice!

00:06:18: Thank You.

00:06:19: So in your music you planned traditional Sudanese sounds with electronic and experimental elements.

00:06:28: so what music influenced you?

00:06:30: As you were growing up?

00:06:31: And how did you find your own sound?

00:06:33: yes this is such A great question because there's so much into, like the answer of this question.

00:06:41: So there's music that I chose to listen too and music that i didn't choose to listen to And they both influenced who I am today as a musician.

00:06:52: so growing up my own choices were let's say in my teen early teenage years...I was choosing to listen To Sudanese artist called Nuri Jaylani and Nuri is such an icon.

00:07:07: what attracted me to him so much is his live performance.

00:07:12: When he's performing life, he's free and I feel like this is something that you know attracts me so much because i'm eager to be a free artist on stage And I feel growing up.

00:07:28: when looking at music performances, live performances in TV it feels sometimes too stiff But when Nouri Jalais performing, he is free.

00:07:40: So that's an artist I liked even if i was just listening to a few songs of his but loved him so much.

00:07:47: and then there another artist who has a friend from the family.

00:07:50: His name is Asim Al-Tayyib.

00:07:53: He makes music you know from Qasudan is so diverse We have some many rhythms we have so many dialects Asim al-Tayeb kind of projects where he takes into journey through whole Sudan just with music.

00:08:08: So these were my choices.

00:08:10: and then Ethiopian Music is a big influence also, Ethiopian music.

00:08:16: Yes I was listening to a lot of Hay Manood Grima And My sister Sally actually introduced me to it.

00:08:23: and Then i would choose to listen yes...and then yeah growing Also my late like teenage years..I Was Listening To Of Course Pop Mainstream American Music Beyoncé, Rihanna... Michael Jackson in the past also because my brothers were obsessed with him.

00:08:42: Murai Keri and these also influenced me.

00:08:49: And then not by choice My mother would listen to.

00:08:53: She knows every Sudanese artist there is do exist.

00:08:57: she's such a music lover and She likes also to discover musicians.

00:09:02: so sometimes I When I was younger, that would listen to what she listens too and I'm like complaining.

00:09:08: Like this doesn't speak me or don't feel it but the words are so big or sophisticated for me.

00:09:14: But all of these elements really influenced my so much because when i was let's say fourteen years old then im beginning writing my own music not lyrics but music.

00:09:27: It came out you know So Sudanese also You know, not lyrically.

00:09:32: Lyrically I'm writing in English and i'm talking about my friends but then musically it's the pentatonic scale which is a huge element of Sudanese music And this just feels so Sudanese without forcing It you know at a young age.

00:09:45: So I love that.

00:09:47: Okay A lot of influences.

00:09:48: Yes Yeah!

00:09:50: You were also co-founder of Salut Yal Bandit?

00:09:59: If you translate it, that means respect to the girls.

00:10:02: And this was the first old female band in Khartoum.

00:10:07: So how did these projects come about?

00:10:10: and what does it mean?

00:10:12: To make music together as women in Sudan?

00:10:14: Yes!

00:10:15: This is a great project for being part of the Salute al-Banout.

00:10:19: Banout means girls in Sudanese dialect Like, our grandmothers would say girls.

00:10:28: You know?

00:10:29: Me I'd say banat but like the old women would say ben-noot so it's an odd word.

00:10:36: So this project...I saw a call for applicants at a workshop that was happening in the Guta Institute.

00:10:47: Believe That Was in two thousand and sixteen or twenty fifteen And It was asking all women And there was also another one for all men or boys.

00:10:57: So the one for old women, it was led by an African-American artist.

00:11:02: her name is a Kuwan Aruh.

00:11:03: This isn't amazing.

00:11:04: hip hop artists are also poets.

00:11:06: and then we kind of just started to think who can be in this band.

00:11:12: At that same time I was at Ahfad University for Women.

00:11:17: It's an university for Old Women In Sudan where I went too club led by a really important Sudanese artist.

00:11:27: His name is Mamduh Tahir Farid, and he was you know practicing music teaching some girls' music.

00:11:35: like a drummer or bassist I used to go there just to sing.

00:11:39: so these these girls.

00:11:41: we invited them to the workshop And then We created this band.

00:11:47: There were other singers and lovers of music experience when it comes to music.

00:11:53: Some of us were doing it for a long time, some of us just did it for hobby.

00:11:58: so It was really diverse in that sense also and another sense of we had girls from South the southwestern side of Sudan The East.

00:12:10: So it was also diverse.

00:12:11: this way and visually we look different.

00:12:15: I mean like... We're all unique.

00:12:19: So it was great and Akua, uh... ...was talking to us a lot about.

00:12:24: there were so much women empowerment in the workshop.

00:12:28: It wasn't just this.

00:12:29: make music.

00:12:29: I expected it be like okay dinner-like you know kind of academic but it wasn't!

00:12:36: She kinda spoke to our souls or if i speak about myself he really spoke to me what she was saying.

00:12:43: we're having a lot of discussions And there are so many woman empowerment Talking about things that sometimes it's hard for us to talk about like racism and thinks.

00:12:53: you opened up some topics And we had the chance to discuss as a group.

00:12:59: Be vulnerable, I would say.

00:13:02: The great thing also about It For Me was kind of planting That passion Of being angry About something or want to stick up for like women, right?

00:13:17: So this was I mean of course i had with from my family but also This way From Akua.

00:13:25: Was great You know.

00:13:27: so I have disappeared when a period Of time where could express that.

00:13:32: yeah your music often addressed double standards towards women And the first single from your album, Moje Omnar tackles precisely these issues.

00:13:45: So what's the story behind this song?

00:13:47: The story behind Mojeomnar... I'm gonna try to keep it kind of brief because there is a musical side and lyric-side concept.

00:13:57: A musical side that my mom was listening to a lot of Ethiopian music—the kind where she doesn't listen at all kind of jazzy.

00:14:06: She was listening to an artist, and I called his name as Telahon Ghasseseh.

00:14:11: Hope i'm saying his name right?

00:14:13: And she was playing it a lot in the house...and then came up with this line that goes... Because This isn't really pentatonic you know That always go for its different scale.

00:14:27: So this is like The beginning how musically sounded Like..And Then the concept.

00:14:35: Oh, there's a great also little story that I when i created this melody.

00:14:41: I sent it to a Sudanese theater director.

00:14:44: His name is Waleed Al-Alfi.

00:14:45: He was an important Sudanese artist.

00:14:49: he did some plays with him musical place That also had all women.

00:14:54: so I played in this melody and decided To make at the beginning of An All Women Musical Play.

00:15:01: It's called El Filalo Lele.

00:15:02: Its amazing.

00:15:03: its on YouTube.

00:15:04: So I feel like it's kind of just went into, this is about women.

00:15:08: This song is about woman and the struggle of women in what they go through.

00:15:12: another thing i was thinking About a close friend Of mine.

00:15:16: she Was having trouble with her father With Her brother.

00:15:20: there were Kind of you know too extreme?

00:15:25: And It was obvious Just because She Is A Woman.

00:15:28: so I wrote some lines about that also being In Egypt around Women working.

00:15:34: I heard some stories about, you know being a wife and how that is like.

00:15:40: So all of these things...I wrote some lines in the song

00:15:46: But it's in English?

00:15:47: The song isn't

00:15:48: in Arabic.

00:15:51: It's actually the first song that i write In Sudanese..it just came out with this song.

00:16:01: Yeah very curious.

00:16:03: So maybe because it's quite impossible to talk about Sudanese art and you mentioned so many Sudanese artists without addressing the current situation in Sudan.

00:16:17: How have you personally experienced development of recent years?

00:16:23: I feel like i'm still in shock, kind-of speechless And I don't know what to say, and i think that I have been in this state of just being shocked.

00:16:37: Not knowing how to process all these.

00:16:39: tragedy Of course has affected me and affected my extended family.

00:16:47: My smaller family is really tragic You know?

00:16:54: It's also important to say that Sudan has gone through really horrible times.

00:17:00: There was war in the Western side of Sudan, and it's important that I mention because... It is horrific to go through a war but more horrific when nobody acknowledges or talks about it.

00:17:19: Many artists had to leave Sudan And you grew up between Egypt and Sudan.

00:17:27: And does exile change your own artistic work?

00:17:31: What influence does the diaspora have on you.

00:17:35: Yeah, I feel like this is a question that i'm still thinking about and still...I don't know how to answer it but yes- I came to Egypt in two thousand four.

00:17:46: It was really tough for my family To be in Sudan which was hard You know, we are an artistic family.

00:17:54: My father is... And others.

00:17:56: he was a lecturer in university.

00:17:58: things were really tough for us and then my mom decided to go to Cairo so we can seek asylum somehow.

00:18:07: but I would say that definitely the years when i was in Sudan For example going back to study University.

00:18:14: this Is When I Was Most Creative So Inspired Writing A Lot just like my emotions, I'm writing so effortlessly.

00:18:27: But also being in Egypt had gave me the opportunity to do lots of self-development and yeah...I don't know if that's even answering question but i can feel a effect.

00:18:43: of course not be your own land.

00:18:46: And now with extreme things happening right That's a whole other level of.

00:18:53: how is it affecting artists, you know.

00:18:57: Yeah

00:18:58: all the families not only yeah but despite the crisis that you mentioned long ago and now especially now so its very tragic The Sudanese music scene seems incredibly vibrant So special in hip-hop and the Sindh diaspora.

00:19:16: what role does music play?

00:19:18: In times of war and uncertainty.

00:19:21: Yes, such an important role.

00:19:24: I feel like when-when i was younger... ...I didn't really understand it of how the power of music and music can be peaceful is like the strongest weapon.

00:19:34: but now.. ..i really do understand the importance of music & art at these times You know?

00:19:43: These artists telling their stories The story you know, their experience of being Sudanese or what is Sudan like this land?

00:19:54: You know it's not just that.

00:19:56: It some country in Africa there isn't more and its all about war.

00:20:03: Of course we need to talk about but also Its so important to talk About This War.

00:20:09: What Is It Actually Affecting Like?

00:20:12: What Are The People Like?

00:20:13: What Is Their Culture Like?

00:20:15: How Rich Is This Land That Is Being destroyed.

00:20:20: The potential of the people, you know?

00:20:23: We have such a strong... I mean rich culture, rich land and it's we need to yell that now.

00:20:33: so It is very political.

00:20:35: the art and music in Sudan

00:20:38: I don't know.

00:20:38: i mean the songs Don't even have To be the artists That are doing So well right Now.

00:20:44: it doesn't Even Have to Be like.

00:20:47: That's enough.

00:20:48: It

00:20:49: is fair!

00:20:53: Your debut album, Water and Fire, it's said to be released in the summer.

00:21:01: so what's the story behind that title?

00:21:06: What different themes do you explore on the album?

00:21:09: just maybe in short?

00:21:15: the state of being hopeful and helpless, helpless and hopeful.

00:21:20: And I think that in this album...I've written this music really so many years ago-the songs on this album two thousand fourteen to thirteen fifteen The newest one in twenty nineteen..and i think That This Is The State Where I Was At.

00:21:37: You can feel it if not lyrically musically.

00:21:40: is that you know this a sad song?

00:21:43: It's talking about something serious, it was something string.

00:21:46: but there is this hopeful side.

00:21:49: That hopeful feeling that you know things might be better than this.

00:21:56: Yeah okay and I would like also to mention yeah sure-that Moyonad the single was produced by AB Mahroof Abtallah Mahrof such a good friend of mine.

00:22:06: And yes i needed to say that in the album The whole Album Is Produced By Mohammad Arakiz, a Sudanese artist.

00:22:14: And when will you present it?

00:22:16: Some days in the summer!

00:22:19: Not sure yet but I'm

00:22:20: pushing her and pushing...

00:22:23: But if we don't just work musically You also work across disciplines together with your sisters In the collective LG Zuri sisters.

00:22:32: So maybe could tell us how this came about?

00:22:36: Yes, so these Sally and May are two fireballs.

00:22:40: The Fireballs of my life may... You know see yeah we're an artistic family.

00:22:48: but in May in the year seven she started to speak about.

00:22:52: actually before that you start talking about We need do something together.

00:22:56: And then I was like okay let's do it!

00:23:03: for this collaboration, and I had some savings from doing live concerts in Khartoum.

00:23:09: And then i was like okay we're gonna use this money to buy a bit of fabric and stuff.

00:23:14: so Sally did the costumes and she worked on the concept writing...and Maye was doing the directing and was leading this whole collaboration.

00:23:22: actually it's really that let's make this happen!

00:23:26: So grateful Yeah, zero budget.

00:23:32: You know the videographers that we worked with.

00:23:35: they just helped us out.

00:23:36: Ahmed Mahmood and I'm forgetting the names but when be released it really made an impact.

00:23:43: I would say you Know what?

00:23:45: It's really important for me That you know making quality work or work that your heart on doesn't have to align with having money.

00:23:57: You know which is this?

00:23:58: a tricky also thing is not something that we can be proud of, you know the struggling artist but it's also good to shed some light there.

00:24:09: You know?

00:24:10: Yeah yeah maybe just uh to explain.

00:24:12: or for listeners this collaboration has resulted in award-winning music videos and I they're very beautiful.

00:24:21: i watched a few really beautiful so thank.

00:24:25: Was this a connection between music, art and fashion?

00:24:30: What was it that interests you on this.

00:24:32: Yes

00:24:33: I mean in this case with Sally and me.

00:24:36: It's beautiful because we're sisters And...it made things also so easy.

00:24:43: i can just sit there let me and Sally do whatever they want and im sure its going to be beautiful.

00:24:48: sometimes their critical of my music which makes me sad.

00:24:53: But whatever that they do, I know it's going to be great.

00:24:56: I believe in them and feel lucky working with them.

00:24:58: so this is the side.

00:25:00: but also working without an artist?

00:25:02: It's just beautiful!

00:25:03: It's pure joy because there are opportunities for people who experience joy and create and have fun at play.

00:25:10: Thank you

00:25:12: very much.

00:25:15: As we come to an end of our podcast let us wrap up one final question maybe.

00:25:22: So what are your hopes for the Sudanese cultural scene and what do you hope, personally?

00:25:29: For your residency but also beyond that.

00:25:32: Yes I don't know when i think about my people whether it's people who are in any sector... ...I just wish for better times.. ..I wish more relaxed time and peaceful times for all Sudanese people.

00:25:51: Yeah, and for myself.

00:25:54: I just am so excited.

00:25:55: For what's to come And the live performances To see how the audience How the people of Vienna...I hope they'll come Watch them react to my music into dancing Into the Sudanese rhythms that i love So much!

00:26:13: And for their collaborations.

00:26:17: you know, some projects come out of this.

00:26:20: I wish that i continue to practice music.

00:26:25: Thank You very much Hiba for this conversation.

00:26:28: there will be a lot of concerts in Vienna but all over Austria and we can find information about Hiba's residency online including these concert dates in austria.

00:26:46: Space for encounter between the diaspora and the local scene.

00:26:50: It's a space for tradition, experimentation in between political reality and artistic question And I think especially in times of global crisis such cultural exchange programs are really gaining importance because they enable visibility and they enable all the long-term collaborations.

00:27:13: That's important because it connects people, preserves memories and gives hope as you said also in your songs.

00:27:22: Thankyou very much!

00:27:24: Thanks for listening to this conversation with Hiba Ejiduli a singer songwriter an artist-in-residence at Kulturnenbewegung the cultural initiative of the reality.