Sexuality education as empowerment in Nairobi

00:00:03: Hello and welcome to Blickwechsel, the VIDC podcast for a new view of the world.

00:00:08: My name is Sibyla Straubinger.

00:00:10: I am the director of the Vienna Institute for International Dialogue and Cooperation, VIDC.

00:00:16: Once a month, this podcast focuses on an international topic.

00:00:20: Today, we are talking about what sex education has to do with empowerment of women in Kenya.

00:00:26: My guest, who can answer this and other questions, is Mercy Kamau.

00:00:32: She's the executive director of the Kenyan NGO, Matare Children Fund, Pan Nairobi, and is currently pursuing a PhD in gender studies at John Hopkins University.

00:00:44: Her work focuses primarily on young mothers in the informal settlement of Matare in Nairobi, one of the city's largest, home to around half a million people.

00:00:55: Her work focuses on teenage mothers who are particularly vulnerable in Matare.

00:01:01: Many of them are victims of sexual violence, have little knowledge about their bodies and contraception, have no access to menstrual hygiene products and receive little support from their families.

00:01:15: Since

00:01:15: two thousand and fourteen, there has been a successful cooperation with the Austrian NGO, The Rain Workers.

00:01:23: As part of this collaboration, six social workers have been trained and work directly with teenage mothers providing sex education in particular.

00:01:33: Welcome, Mercy.

00:01:34: Thank you.

00:01:35: Sorry.

00:01:36: Mercy, before we talk about your work, could you briefly tell us how your past led you to Mataare?

00:01:43: Okay.

00:01:43: I've been working with international organizations, non-governmental organizations in Kenya and Beale.

00:01:52: And all my work has been revolving around women and girls in terms of ensuring they access the rights to health and more specifically, sexual reproductive rights.

00:02:04: I've been working in HIV programs, family planning programs, where I've seen thousands of women and girls access these services through the support I give within this program.

00:02:16: And it is through this passion that I was able to work.

00:02:21: at Madare Children's Fund to support women who are most vulnerable, especially when it comes to access to health services as well as economic opportunities.

00:02:31: And this has been a great journey for me to be in Madare and working for the most vulnerable women within these environments.

00:02:39: Thank you.

00:02:40: And could you perhaps start by telling us a little bit about Madare?

00:02:45: What life is like there, especially for girls and young women?

00:02:51: Masdare is one of the largest informal settlements within Nairobi and actually the entire Kenya with almost over five hundred thousand people living within these informal settlements.

00:03:04: For women and girls the life here is challenging and because they lack basic necessities of life.

00:03:12: They are mostly women lack economic opportunities and the majority of them who access economic opportunities, they are less than one euro a day.

00:03:24: This makes it so hard for them to do daily survival because they have to cater for basic needs such as food, housing, water, and education.

00:03:37: And you find this puts them in a very tricky situation because of their low economic status.

00:03:43: And this denies them opportunities such as having clean water.

00:03:50: having maybe menstrual hygiene products.

00:03:53: they lack the experience a lot of gender-based violence because the relationship they are in mostly they are about most of them and experiencing gender-based violence in terms of reproductive health, coercion, sexual exploitation and even physical, emotional and economic abuse.

00:04:13: One of your projects offers young mothers six months of training, for example, as seamstresses, petitions or hairdressers.

00:04:23: Why these professions and how does this program work?

00:04:27: How does it change the life of these women?

00:04:30: At Madara Children's Fund for Nairobi, we are offering six months vocational skills training to most vulnerable teenage mothers who fall out of school because of... teenage pregnancy.

00:04:43: And just to highlight, teenage pregnancy is one of the biggest reproductive health challenges in Kenya because the recent Kenya Demographic Health Survey indicated that fifteen percent of adolescents and young women below the age of nineteen, they are either pregnant or they have started childbearing before the age of nineteen.

00:05:06: And this is where our work comes in.

00:05:09: These girls drop out of school.

00:05:11: And we come in to give them the next chance to get an opportunity for education.

00:05:17: And we take them through a six-month program of a vocational skills training in garment making and cosmetology hairdressing.

00:05:26: And through this course, they acquire skills that enable them to participate in economic.

00:05:33: opportunities thereafter training.

00:05:35: We also offer life skills around our vocational skills training because most of these teenage mothers are going a lot of traumatic moments around their teenage pregnancy.

00:05:46: And with their life skills, we provide their life skills to become an enabler for them to utilize the vocational skills that they have acquired through our training.

00:05:58: Once they are completed their training, we transition them to employment opportunities.

00:06:04: We have some memorandum of understanding with some gamut making.

00:06:09: companies that absorb them for internship and thereafter they get job opportunities within those institutions.

00:06:16: For those who don't get the jobs, we transition them to small businesses which they start and over time we have seen their businesses grow.

00:06:25: Through our training, we follow the teenage mothers for six months just to see how they are faring out in the job market and acquiring economic opportunities.

00:06:37: And we have found out about seventy-five percent of the teenage mothers who go through our program, they are able to acquire sustainable opportunities, sustainable economic opportunities after the training.

00:06:51: Either they are either employed in the companies or they have started up their own business within the community and they are making income.

00:07:00: for themselves and for bringing up their baby.

00:07:02: And this is a true transformation because we change the economic situation and also we address the issues to do with their mental well-being and social well-being so they are all rounded and they can be able to fit in the community and drive us young women.

00:07:20: You already mentioned that in addition to the practical skills, the young mothers also receive lessons and so-called life skills.

00:07:29: such as family planning, menstrual health, mental health and sex education.

00:07:34: Why is this so important in Mathara in particular and how do you teach these topics without violating personal or religious boundaries?

00:07:44: In the section of Life Skills, we train these young mothers on sexual education, mental well-being, communication skills and entrepreneurship as well as social skills.

00:07:56: And we do this through a very participatory approach because we would want them to, we would want them to own the process and understand why this is being done for them and why these kids are very important.

00:08:11: First of all, we ensure they understand the circumstances that they are in.

00:08:16: For instance, they are young mothers at thirteen at fifteen.

00:08:20: It is because of lack of information, especially on sex education.

00:08:25: Majority of the teenage mothers that we enroll in our program.

00:08:29: They didn't know what to do to prevent a pregnancy.

00:08:32: They didn't know what to do to prevent a sexual or reproductive health question or sexual exploitation.

00:08:40: So we start with that background that they understand the circumstances under which they are in.

00:08:45: It's because they didn't have that information.

00:08:48: And when that is agreed, we now move on with delivering this information.

00:08:53: We use a very participatory approach through the Rain Workers Association, the Productive Health Network of Rain Workers.

00:09:01: And through this, the approach brings the teenage mothers to a very low level of understanding their sexuality.

00:09:09: what they need to do about their sexuality, how they can prevent pregnancies, subsequent pregnancies, because already they have the first pregnancy.

00:09:17: How can they prevent the subsequent one?

00:09:19: And then how can they prevent themselves from another?

00:09:23: gender-based virus in form of sexual exploitation or sexual harassment.

00:09:28: and then how can they manage this within a community that has very, very high level of gender stereotypes that view women as tools to be used by men.

00:09:41: How do they remain afloat within these communities?

00:09:44: We teach them about how to resist any other form of gender-based virus as well as training them on how to prevent themselves from HIV through the methods that are provided and approved by the government.

00:09:57: Is there a moment that has stayed with you in particular?

00:10:01: Yes,

00:10:01: this was last year.

00:10:03: When one of the teenage mothers we enrolled within our program, she was so traumatized by the pregnancy to a level she didn't like her child.

00:10:15: And within this process, she was she was actually almost wanting to kill her child because she did not like this baby at all at all.

00:10:26: We tried all the ways to console her to ensure that she appreciates her child.

00:10:32: because yes we appreciate the child was born untimely but now The child is here.

00:10:38: What do we do?

00:10:38: We need to do protection for this child.

00:10:41: And this young mother was so traumatized to a level she was not feeding her child.

00:10:46: The child becomes so malnourished.

00:10:48: She was not breastfeeding the baby.

00:10:50: She didn't like the baby.

00:10:52: She was not emotionally connecting with this child.

00:10:55: And this situation was very tough for the organization.

00:10:58: But through support of a counselor, a professional counselor, the child was really taken through how to appreciate her situation, how to forgive the past and come to the present, live in the present by appreciating this child and then we were able to draft a future for that girl.

00:11:18: Right now the girl is working and she's employed somewhere, although the events were very traumatic for us because we were fearing that she might kill the child within the organization.

00:11:28: She might do something harmful within the organization, but through Mother Etude's fund interventions, we were able to stabilize her mind, we were able to make her appreciate the child.

00:11:41: requests to be nurtured to be cared for and then through this the girl was able to complete the course.

00:11:48: the girl was able to love her child.

00:11:51: the girl was able to see the future in a different way and now she's pursuing her future.

00:11:56: she's already employed somewhere and she's driving very well right now and she comes to our office smiling saying you really helped me.

00:12:04: otherwise I would have killed this baby.

00:12:06: so this is one of the most traumatic situation that I've experienced in the recent future.

00:12:12: Yeah, that's great.

00:12:13: Sounds wonderful.

00:12:14: It's a really great success story.

00:12:16: In your projects, you work a lot with women, but the change often requires men as allies.

00:12:22: So how could men be better involved in preventing violence against women and promoting equality?

00:12:29: Men are... expected to be allies in the issues to address the gender-based virus that is happening against women.

00:12:39: But most of the time in our societies, the patriarchal nature of our society, where men are supposed to be higher than women, really undermines the efforts to engage them.

00:12:49: And also the gender norms that have really persisted within our community, it has been a challenge for us to ensure that men are brought on board.

00:13:01: Now, as MCFP, we are changing this narrative.

00:13:04: We are engaging men, especially the men who are responsible for these pregnancies.

00:13:11: invite them for meetings and talk to them and first of all make them understand that that is agenda-based violence and it is a legal violation because you are not supposed to have sex with a minor a child who is below eighteen years.

00:13:26: they understand that.

00:13:27: then we engage them further to request them to support women whenever there is a pregnancy that comes into play.

00:13:35: They support women and they work with them, the Chinese, throughout this pregnancy.

00:13:40: Then thereafter, we teach them about the contraceptive method using the approach by the rain worker to tell them that if you're engaging in sexual activity with a woman, it is important.

00:13:54: to discuss the issue of family planning or contraceptive if you don't intend to get a child.

00:14:00: And they appreciate it.

00:14:01: We teach them about all the contraceptive methods.

00:14:04: They learn about them.

00:14:06: They will dispel the myths that are around each and every family planning method.

00:14:11: Like, for instance, the IUD.

00:14:14: Most men usually say, It is going to prick on them when they are having sex.

00:14:18: And we show them how it is inserted, where it is, and appendices can never penetrate to get where the IUD is.

00:14:26: And once they understand that, they support now women to take up contraceptive methods to prevent any subsequent pregnancies.

00:14:34: The other aspect we engage men is through community dialogues.

00:14:38: Through the local administration, we call for community dialogues where we engage both men and women.

00:14:43: at the same level to discuss about the issues of teenage pregnancy, gender-based violence, and HIV infection, because it's a big threat for young women in Kenya.

00:14:53: And once we have this conversation, we let them understand that it is the role of everybody, including men, to take part of it.

00:15:01: It's not a woman issue anymore.

00:15:03: It is a role for it.

00:15:05: And we are glad the Gen Z movement is trying to go beyond the genomics.

00:15:12: And they are challenging most of these genomes.

00:15:14: And we are happy whenever we have an engagement with them.

00:15:17: They are able to support.

00:15:19: Like for instance, I remember one of them when we did a daily analysis, day analysis time.

00:15:26: And one of the men had listed only three activities from morning to evening.

00:15:31: And then for a woman, because of child care services, the woman wakes up at five, complete her day by midnight at night.

00:15:39: And when he looked at all the tests, that a woman have to do on daily basis.

00:15:45: He said, I appreciate and I will support the women.

00:15:49: If this is what they go through on daily basis, I will support them.

00:15:53: So that is how we are engaging men to ensure they understand the life of a woman so that they can support them, especially for child care services.

00:16:01: They are paid care work that is done at home, like cleaning utensils, cleaning the house, washing the clothes, doing homework with children.

00:16:09: We engage them and we tell them it cannot be a woman issue only.

00:16:13: It has to be shared between men and women.

00:16:17: And this is working out very well.

00:16:19: And we have seen the men we have engaged, we are really supporting the use of contraceptive for the young women.

00:16:25: They're supporting them when it comes to unpaid care work and child care services.

00:16:30: And this is working well.

00:16:31: But this is in a smaller scale.

00:16:34: Where we are working, it's a very small scale.

00:16:36: It's a model that has worked.

00:16:38: and it can be replicated and expanded or scaled up to other regions to ensure all men are coming on board as alike.

00:16:47: In this summer, there were many demonstrations in Nairobi, mainly by young people from generations set.

00:16:53: There was also a lot of talk about violence against women.

00:16:56: How do you see this movement?

00:16:58: What influence does it have to issues such as family seed or gender-based violence and activism on gender equality in Kenya?

00:17:09: Okay, the Gen Z movement or Gen Z demonstration was a result of intergenerational misunderstanding because I think the Gen Z are coming with new ideologies of leadership on how government should run its affairs and this was very,

00:17:28: very

00:17:28: strong movement.

00:17:29: trying to challenge the traditional norms of leadership and how leadership has been done before.

00:17:35: And I think this is a progressive, it was a progressive movement because sometimes the traditional leadership uphold a lot of gender norms and the gender stereotypes that have been making women and men lag behind.

00:17:52: Therefore, we find this one as a key thing towards the intergenerational cooperation that is required, like the young people and the older people have to come together and work together to address many issues, including the gender issues.

00:18:08: For instance, one of the things that brought the Gen Z demonstration was the taxation on the menstrual products.

00:18:16: And both young men and young women came up saying you cannot increase tax on menstrual products because you deny the young women their reproductive health rights.

00:18:26: of access to these products.

00:18:28: It's a biological function.

00:18:29: It's not their fund.

00:18:30: It's a biological fund.

00:18:31: Why do you have to tax them?

00:18:33: To tax them extra for a biological function which is given to them that does not affect men.

00:18:39: And I could see both young men and young women coming at the forefront defending that kind of an approach in a finance bill.

00:18:47: Then we saw during this demonstration that the participation was both for men and women.

00:18:52: And it brought a lot of gender collaboration between young men and young women, both online and offline activities.

00:19:01: When the demonstration was happening, because at first it was starting online through hashtags, and both women and men could participate.

00:19:08: And then when they agreed on a date for demonstration, they would go to the street, both young men and women.

00:19:13: But now the challenge was women were more affected when it came to this kind of demonstration, because there was issues to do with... A number of red cases were reported during this demonstration, which really violated women.

00:19:28: There was harassment for young women and also the feminist movements within Kenya that were on the street just trying to demonstrate and say that this bill, the finance bill was not okay, especially in addressing the issues of women.

00:19:44: They were really harassed online.

00:19:48: A lot of technology facilitated violence, especially for the big influencers.

00:19:52: We saw the big influencers for the JNZ demonstration, especially women.

00:19:56: The men knew it was a bit less.

00:19:58: But for the young women who were influencers and posting about the rights they require, they were really trolled, they were really abused online, which did not work out very well for the young women.

00:20:12: And also the issue of femicide, it occurred a lot, especially when this kind of notion comes that these women, they are... They are very folk or they are what.

00:20:26: so you could see the issue of femicide coming into play.

00:20:30: but generally the movement was actually for the young men and women.

00:20:37: it was crossing the borders of the traditional gender norms that we know.

00:20:42: Actually it challenged the gender norms of like men should be on leadership.

00:20:47: and all the both men and women came up and they were challenging all this and fighting even for women rights within that demonstration.

00:20:55: So it is intergenerational kind of a demonstration that tells the leadership there must be a cooperation between the older generation and the younger generation and they have to come to a middle point and agree.

00:21:07: I think that was, yeah.

00:21:09: Before working at MCF, Panero, you were also active in policy consulting and evaluation based on your experience.

00:21:18: What political reforms or government programs does Kenya need most urgently to truly achieve the goals of the EU gender action plan, especially for women, girls and young mothers?

00:21:32: Okay.

00:21:33: Currently, Kenya has very good policies when it comes to gender.

00:21:37: gender issues, the challenge we are having is the implementation of this policy.

00:21:43: And gender financing these policies to ensure that they are being taken into action.

00:21:50: So you will find the policies are there, they are good legal frameworks, but when it comes to implementation, there is a big challenge.

00:21:57: the financing of the implementation is a challenge.

00:22:00: And that is where organizations like Madera Chubespan and other non-governmental organizations come in.

00:22:06: They try to implement this aspect.

00:22:09: Like in the EU gender action plan, there is that aspect of women's economic empowerment.

00:22:16: You will find there are small initiatives trying to work around women's economic importance, but it is not sufficient.

00:22:25: It needs a whole coordinated mechanism to ensure women are fully economically empowered.

00:22:32: Then the basic policy right now is about technology-facilitated violence because there is a lot of violence happening online, especially for women in the feminist movement who are trying to influence change for women and girls.

00:22:46: you see they are really harassed online, they are abused, they are trolled, they are.

00:22:52: they are done all sort of things online and this limits them in terms of their advocacy work because if I'm really harassed in online spaces.

00:23:02: I'm not able to continue with my advocacy work.

00:23:05: And this is a policy that our country need to put on the technology-facilitated violence policy and the legal frameworks in case somebody violates me online.

00:23:16: How am I supposed to do this?

00:23:18: But generally, we have policies.

00:23:21: What need to be looked at?

00:23:22: Are they correct?

00:23:23: Are they addressing the real issues on the ground that are affecting both women and men?

00:23:30: to achieve this gender equality.

00:23:32: So we need proprietary views of this policy and also we need to have policy on the emerging issues such as the technology-facilitated violence against women and girls.

00:23:43: Yeah, I think that's a point for all countries, this online harassment and how to deal with it.

00:23:49: Development work is often dependent on international funding.

00:23:53: And eight flows are changing worldwide.

00:23:56: For example, do you do new political priorities or cuts by mayor donors such as USAID?

00:24:04: How do such changes affect your work in the field of sex education and gender equality?

00:24:10: Do you see ways to continue financing such projects in the long term?

00:24:16: Yes.

00:24:17: I do agree.

00:24:18: there is a lot of change in the financing of gender-related projects and sexually productive health-related projects, because especially with the USID funding cuts, that had a very huge impact in Kenya.

00:24:33: At Madari Children's Fund, we had an organization called Hopal White Kenya that was supporting us for the project.

00:24:40: But with this budget cuts, the project ended.

00:24:44: So it is a real... impact on us, and we have to rethink what other financing modalities that are existing.

00:24:53: And as institutions that are working on gender equality and sexual reproductive health rights, there is need of rethinking how we can enhance public-private partnership.

00:25:04: Like for instance, for moderate children funds, we are trying to approach the big private companies if they can support our work through corporate social responsibilities and if it aligns with your mission.

00:25:18: This is a process, this is a work in progress and we want to see how it turns out.

00:25:24: So far we have received a few responses here and there that for this year they are already done with the financing.

00:25:30: Probably we can try next year in twenty twenty six.

00:25:33: So this is an approach we can try.

00:25:35: The other one is advocacy for gender responsive budgeting within government budgets so that it becomes stronger and more resources are allocated for gender and sexual reproductive health rights, budgets, and finances.

00:25:51: Because normally you will find, sometimes when you go to the table to negotiate about the budgets, people will allocate funds for the road, people will allocate funds for agriculture, they will allocate funds for education.

00:26:05: But when it comes to gender equality and sexual reproductive health rights, normally it has to be squeezed through.

00:26:12: It doesn't just come easy.

00:26:14: It's a bit challenging to to have proper financing for this aspect.

00:26:19: And this is what we are looking for.

00:26:20: How do we make it make sexual reproductive rights and gender equality same as road construction in terms of financing so that it doesn't?

00:26:30: it is not looked like a smaller kind of development aspect.

00:26:36: It needs to be on the table like any other big projects that are being financed within countries.

00:26:41: And then the other aspect that we could embrace is about having social products that can be sold for social good or for the common good of the community.

00:26:55: At MCF, we have social enterprises that finance about twenty, twenty-five percent of our budget and this is through reusable sanitary pads which are far much cheaper than disposable ones and also they are.

00:27:09: They are environmentally friendly because they contribute to zero waste.

00:27:13: And this is what we are looking for.

00:27:15: If organizations that are working on gender and sexual reproductive health rights could have social enterprises that are promoting the same goal, it could really be very nice.

00:27:26: What we are doing in MCFP with reusable sanitary pads, it's very nice.

00:27:31: And people are appreciating our sanitary pads, those who are rich.

00:27:35: middle class people and the low-level people are appreciating our sanitary pads and we sell to these customers to this class and the funds we get.

00:27:43: we plow it back to our project and the social enterprise could be another way of financing our work.

00:27:51: The other way is community engagement so that the community also can contribute.

00:27:58: to funding such initiatives.

00:28:00: How do we engage the communities to see the sense in financing this?

00:28:05: And recently, in my church, I'm a Catholic, and the church I go to, I talk to a woman about the work we are doing in Madara, and she said, wow, that is so nice.

00:28:17: I'll come and see what you're doing, and then I can see what I will do.

00:28:21: So I went, she came to the office, and she found we took through the project and to say I'm going to buy materials for the guys who are doing garment making and cosmetology, materials for guys who are doing garment making and for a whole six months.

00:28:39: And actually, she did that.

00:28:40: She brought a lot of material.

00:28:42: She brought a lot of strength.

00:28:43: She brought a lot of buttons and honor, which will support us in the current cohort that we are training.

00:28:49: So this is the kind of community engagement we can do to ensure financing of our project.

00:28:54: Because there could be people outside there who are willing to support in a small or a bigger way.

00:29:00: Sometimes we see community people come.

00:29:02: And when we tell them how we are supporting children in school with reusable sanitary pads to keep them in school, somebody would say, I'm buying for ten girls.

00:29:12: I don't have a lot of money, but I can buy for ten gas.

00:29:15: I can buy for two gas.

00:29:16: I can buy for ten gas.

00:29:18: And you see that fund raises for the organization, which is an initiative we can do when we engage the community well, and they participate in this kind of initiative.

00:29:28: So those are just a few ways of financing that I would think of.

00:29:32: But I believe there are many more other.

00:29:33: we can collaborate together, including partnerships, strong partnerships with any people who... within our vision.

00:29:42: Yeah, that sounds that you're really in a good way to find innovative and new ways to fund your project.

00:29:48: Great.

00:29:50: But if you could talk to representatives of the European Union or other international organisations, what advice would you give them?

00:29:58: What changes maybe in programmes are needed to empower women and girls in informal settlements like Matare?

00:30:07: Okay.

00:30:08: The changes I would like to recommend is co-designing the projects with the grassroot movements because that is where the issues are really understood.

00:30:21: That is where you will really come with local based solution to the problems the communities are having.

00:30:29: So with the EU, or maybe the EU team I would recommend, they work with the grassroot or organization co-design the projects with them.

00:30:38: that will bring the real change to the community.

00:30:41: Our project is just a small one, but we always co-design it with the community.

00:30:46: And that is why we have been able to see about seventy-five percent transformation of the teenage mothers who go through our project.

00:30:55: It's because the project is tailored to their need.

00:30:58: Like for instance, I give an example.

00:31:00: When we started the Teenage Mother Program, we did think of where to leave the baby as they come to school.

00:31:07: The first enrollment was a mess because all of them almost all of them dropped out because of the challenges of where to leave my baby.

00:31:15: Who do I leave my baby with when I come for learning?

00:31:18: And when we realized that this is the problem because they all expressed the need to have a daycare services where to leave the baby.

00:31:24: We initiated and came up with the daycare services.

00:31:28: Now the teenage manor come with their babies.

00:31:31: They put their baby in the daycare services.

00:31:33: We have child-minders.

00:31:34: The girls go to class.

00:31:36: They learn.

00:31:37: And then they can breastfeed.

00:31:40: The mode of learning is very flexible.

00:31:42: They can breastfeed anytime they can take care of their baby.

00:31:45: Anytime they can leave the class, go breastfeed, come back.

00:31:48: And this approach has seen our droplet.

00:31:52: completely reduced.

00:31:53: We have almost a hundred percent completion rate and also we provide food because we realize food is also another big challenge for the teenage mother.

00:32:01: When they are hungry they are not able to run.

00:32:03: So we provide break time meal and also we provide the lunch.

00:32:07: For evening they can go feed for themselves outside there but the two meals are well provided for under-edit.

00:32:14: The retention level improved to almost a hundred percent.

00:32:18: And this is as a result of co-designing together.

00:32:22: Because the communities understand their solution better than anybody else.

00:32:27: For instance, when I was working with big NGOs, I used to talk about teenage pregnancies as numbers.

00:32:34: Nowadays, I don't talk teenage pregnancies as numbers.

00:32:37: I look at it as a life, as someone.

00:32:40: who needs help, who needs support.

00:32:42: That time it was about statistics, number fifteen percent, a thousand of them,

00:32:46: and numbers,

00:32:47: numbers, numbers.

00:32:48: But right now we are discussing about a life you want to change.

00:32:52: You are into that girl's life and you're talking about a life.

00:32:56: It's not just about statistics.

00:32:58: And this is what I would recommend.

00:33:00: As we discuss, let us have that human experience, human connection with the person we are.

00:33:08: we are serving.

00:33:09: And this is where the co-designing with the real beneficiary comes in.

00:33:14: That is the recommendation I would give.

00:33:16: Yeah, it's only possible with grassroots movement.

00:33:19: So as we come to the end of this podcast, let's look to the futures.

00:33:24: So what are your hopes for Matare, for MSF, by Nairobi, your project for the young women you work with?

00:33:32: Our future is to scale up.

00:33:34: the project the innovation and the model has worked out

00:33:38: and every

00:33:39: time even the senior government officers come to our project they tell us this is the best way to do it and because it has worked we have done real impact.

00:33:49: we have changed the lives of the girls who go through our project our next big move.

00:33:55: we still figure out how we scale up this innovation to support many other girls within Nairobi and Beaud, even the other counties that are outside Nairobi.

00:34:07: If we had the resources, if we had the support, we would scale up this project to support many other young women and teenage mothers who are missing opportunities because of lack of training, lack of schooling, and lack of a second chance opportunity.

00:34:23: That would be our biggest move if we had the resources.

00:34:27: Thank you very much, Merci for this inspiring conversation for your work, which gives hope to so many young women.

00:34:35: I wish you and your team in Mathare continued strength and success.

00:34:40: And thank you very much for being here today.

00:34:43: Thank you.

00:34:44: Thank you very much.

00:34:45: And even for the opportunity to share about our work at Mathare Children's Fund, we are super delighted.

00:34:52: to be here and to be in this podcast.

00:34:53: Thank you so much.

00:34:54: You're very, very

00:34:55: welcome.

00:34:55: Thank you.

00:34:57: This was Blickwechsel, the VIDC podcast for a new view of the world.

00:35:02: If you are interested in more information on sexual and reproductive health and rights, please visit our website, vidc.org.

00:35:10: You can find there a brand new policy brief on the topic as well.

00:35:16: All the best and see and hear you next time.